Azerbaijan actively works to build bridges between Global South, Global North, President Aliyev addresses Shusha forum

The opening ceremony of the second Shusha Global Media Forum themed “Unmasking False Narratives: Confronting Disinformation” was held on July 20, News.Az reports.

President of the Republic of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev attended the Forum and answered the questions.

Moderator – Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham, host and producer at Euronews channel: It is wonderful to see you, Mr. President. Thank you for gracing us with your presencetoday.

Excellences, distinguished guests, my honored peers in the global international journalistic community. All welcome to this fantastic 2nd Shusha Global Media Forum. We are delighted that you joined us in magnificent Shusha, which we have to say when we have travelled here today has gorgeous green valleys. Terrific tunnels. How fast was the trip. We wish you every continued success in its development. We are delighted that our forum today is held under the patronage of his Excellency, the President of the Republic of Azerbaijan, Ilham Aliyev. Thank you again for being here with us.

My name is Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham, I am a TV anchor and Executive Producer, representing Euronews TV Channel here today. And I am delighted to be a moderator. Thank you for having me.

We have a fantastic agenda for you, not only before but only today. I know that you are greatly anticipating an interactive session with his Excellency and you will have the opportunity to put your questions to him. I do have a long list of names and we do have a generous map of time. Thank you again Mr. President. You are so generous in taking your questions. Just two tiny pieces of advice if I may. When we come to you please keep your questions brief. No compound questions, as journalists know very well. Keep them brief and to the point, give me the headlines. And if you can please also say who you are and what organization you represent will be very grateful.

We should also just remind ourselves why we are here, why there are more than 50 countries represented in the delegates that we see before as today. We gathered here in Shusha to drill down into unmasking false narratives. That is the theme of this year’s forum. So important when it comes to confronting disinformation. We know with the advent and rapid advancement of technology there are so many advantages that it brings to our sector yet the perils are greatly outlined too, which makes it really important for the governments, ministries but also journalists at large, media sector to help protect individuals, societies, governments, the public and private entities, which makes our job in the media ever most scrutinized but also ever more important. So, thank you again for being truth seekers and we to feel your questions to that effect. With regard to the themes that are coming up in the coming days, they will be split into four man pillars. The first of which is an impact assessment. Where do we stand? What are the risks and how we navigate when it comes to the rich of disinformation. Secondly, we will speak policies and initiatives. Lots of questions of course to you, Your Excellency, when it comes to what we can do to better bolster the government side of things. We will also look at inevitable impact positive, negative or otherwise of AI, when it comes to media and disinformation, promoting media literacy so crucial to our event. And climate action. We all know what is happening here in November. We are all very excited about COP29 and climate action, the transition. This will be a focus of our discussions. And I just want to give you a quick teaser what is coming up on day three. Because there is a special presentation after the fourth session moderated by Francis Martin Kane. There will be a special presentation on the subject of “Solidarity for the Green World” focusing on COP29. And there will be a presentation by Elnur Sultanov.

And, of course, you will be taking your questions I will be very much forward to that. Just to let you know some other things to look for before we delve into our Q&A. There is a magnificent gala dinner. There will also be exclusive film screenings and there will be amazing sightseeing tour. So, please, be fully involved. We want this to be a collaborative, interactive, transparent and very candid discussion over the next three days about how we can do things better.

Mr. President, thank you again for being here. Can I start by asking you about last year’s forum. What milestones have been reached since then? What positive action has been taken in the media space in your opinion since then?

President Ilham Aliyev: First of all, thank you for the invitation. It’s a big honor to address this distinguished audience. I was informed that we have delegations from 49 countries, plus host country journalists - media representatives from Azerbaijan. So, in total, 50 countries have gathered here in Karabakh for the second time to address the issues you already described.

I remember last year, almost exactly a year ago, here in this room, I also had a great discussion with the participants. I also expressed my hope that this forum can be traditional. Now, it’s already the second time, so I think this tradition will continue.

With respect to development in the region and in the country since the last Shusha Forum, I think it would take all the time of our session if I start to name what happened, not only in the area of media but also in general in the country and the region. As far as the region of the Southern Caucasus is concerned, I would say that we are now facing a historical transformation of the region with historical, geopolitical changes. Traditional alliances are a little bit under the phase of deterioration. New formats of cooperation emerge. Of course, the full restoration of our sovereignty last September was the key event not only between the 1st and 2nd forums but in our modern history in general. So, a lot of things have happened, and hopefully, all these developments will lead to a more predictable situation in the region.

I think all what we need is to feel ourselves, I mean, the peoples of the region on the safe side. There have been enough wars, enough confrontations, and as you already mentioned, what you’ve seen coming from Fuzuli Airport to here is an enormous reconstruction program we are implementing, and what you've seen is just maybe 5% of what is going on in the region of Karabakh and East Zangazur. So, we are very optimistic. I would say that the whole society of Azerbaijan is optimistic and enthusiastic. And this is a good driver. I think the main driver for any country to succeed is the mood of society, its comfort and its expectations. Especially, when societies see that what they strived for, for so many years, has become a reality.

Moderator Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham: Mr. President, just one more question before we go straight to the floor. Under our theme, unmasking false narratives and confronting disinformation, how great are crises we facing? How big is this fight that we need to fight—fighting the good fight?

President Ilham Aliyev: Unfortunately, our country is actually the subject of what is today a top topic of the discussion. And it's already, unfortunately, become a part of our life. Sometimes we are surprised when information about Azerbaijan in international media is true. False information, disinformation, manipulation of facts, and false narratives are all things we have faced for many, many years. There are different reasons for that. One of them, of course, was the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan and the mobilization of all the Armenian diaspora structures, and pro-Armenian politicians and media representatives in attacking Azerbaijan, creating false narratives, and trying to present Azerbaijan as completely different from what it was and what it is. I remember during many meetings with different foreign guests, during sincere conversations, in the absolute majority of cases, the message to me was, “We did not expect to see in Azerbaijan what we've seen.” So that means these false narratives are really very damaging. They not only damage the reputation, but also damage the country's business potential and investment opportunities, distract attention from the international community to the core issues the country is facing, and concentrate on absolutely unrealistic scenarios.

We've been subject to ethnic cleansing and occupation for almost 30 years, but it was as if we were the aggressors. Including this media coverage and also, as I said, politically motivated messages and decisions, we became a subject of international sanctions. The United States imposed sanctions on Azerbaijan back in 1992. We were the subject of aggression, but because of the Armenian lobby in the United States and pro-Armenian members of Congress, we were sanctioned. So, it is an absolutely absurd situation. The country is facing a humanitarian crisis, the deportation of a million people, total devastation of the occupied territories, and is being sanctioned because of that. At that time, we didn't have access to international media outlets. We were just a newly born, independent country. So, we had to work very hard. At first, it seemed to us that we could not deliver our message properly. We were blaming ourselves and trying to mobilize our resources to explain, to educate, to use different channels of communications. But then we realized that many, very many personalities just did not want to know the truth or they wanted to completely present the situation in an absolutely different manner. So, the best way to deal with that for a country like Azerbaijan, which is only 30-plus years independent, is to invite people like you here to Baku, to other regions, to Karabakh and to see who we are, what our plans are, what our expectations are, what country we want to build, and whether we succeeded or not. And that is the best way to do it. Today, we see that even the American President is facing what we've been facing for so many years,. President Trump was the one who named the Washington Post and the New York Times as fake news. I completely agree with him. Not only in this but in many other statements. So now, the President of the United States is a subject of media harassment, media attacks, and manipulation of public opinion. So, seeing all that, we can be a little bit relaxed. Now, attention is diverted from Azerbaijan. Of course, we would wish for the media to be objective. Everybody is subjective, but media representatives have a special responsibility because their message and their coverage, in many cases, influence the lives of people.

Moderator Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham: Thank you very much, Mr. President. Thank you for your candor. I now turn my attention to the floor. As said, I do have a list of names and we do you have a roving mic. So, please just raise your hands so that I can see you and we'll bring the microphone to you. And first up is Mikhail Gusman, the First Deputy Director General of TASS News Agency.

President Ilham Aliyev: As always as always, first.

Mikhail Gusman: Mr. President, a year ago I participated in the first Shusha Forum and asked my question in Azerbaijani. Today, my question will be in Russian. Ilham Heydarovich, you have just mentioned President Trump. I traveled for 38 hours to come to Shusha. Perhaps the day before yesterday, for four days, I worked at a convention of the Republican Party in the state of Wisconsin. I will be happy to share my impressions, but I did spent four days at the convention, working for my agency, first with a very large number of Republican Party leaders and then with my colleagues. It really was a very interesting convention. I will say this for the first time, the title of my notes which are not even ready yet, it was a convention for the creation of a leader, as I called it. Because it was very different from the previous Republican conventions, and it was very interesting. But my question is that – frankly speaking, I wouldn't even ask it if I hadn’t worked at the convention, but this question is now being asked of President Putin, this question is also being asked of other leaders of different countries, and many leaders are putting this question to themselves. The internal situation in America is not easy. A month ago it was one, but during this month the situation in the Democratic Party has changed dramatically. But you as President of Azerbaijan, on November 6 of this year, on the Wednesday after the first Tuesday after the first Monday, I mean the month, as elections are held according to the constitution. Who would you prefer to be announced according to the results of the election. On the morning of November 6, this will already be clear. Who would you prefer? I am not even asking you which of the two candidates because it is already clear with one of the candidates after the congress, with the second one there is a certain situation, although I am personally convinced that President Biden will remain in the race.

President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you for your question. It would probably be not quite appropriate for me to give an absolutely unambiguous answer. I always try and strive to be as sincere as possible in my answers to any audience, be it a representative of the media or a representative of the Azerbaijani public. I do not palter with the truth. But there are certain points related to a concept such as political culture that do not allow me to answer your question directly, although I think your question is absolutely rhetorical. We have known each other for decades. I am absolutely sure that you know perfectly well what preference I would make. And I think I am not the only one in Azerbaijan. As far as we are concerned, of course we look at this situation through our own prism. The decision will be made by the American people. It is their president that will be elected. But it is also of great importance for the whole world. Because the fate of many and many peoples and countries will largely depend on the decisions that will be made by the first person of the United States. And I think one of the important messages that President Trump has voiced during the campaign, which is still underway, is that there were no wars under his administration. America did not start wars under him, there was no Vietnam, Korea, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Syria – the list could be continued. It was a period in which it didn't happen. Well, it is probably something deserving great respect.

And the second thesis is – I do not want to go too much into the details of the topic, as they say – but the second thesis, which is also important, and in this case, first of all, for the United States itself and countries that are under its direct influence, and this, of course, is a clear position on the issue of traditional values. I think that the absolute majority of the Azerbaijani people not only share this position, but actively promote it and put it into practice.

I think if I go any further, it will become quite clear, so I think I should stop for now.

Mikhail Gusman: Thank you very much, Ilham Heydarovich, but I was allowed to ask two questions at the first forum. So please let me follow the traditions of the first forum.

President Ilham Aliyev: In this case it is a question for the moderator.

Mikhail Gusman: You mentioned that Azerbaijan remains true to traditional values. There is another country that absolutely correlates with Azerbaijan in this respect – it is Russia. I asked this question at the first forum about what I believe was a historic meeting in Moscow on February 22, 2022, where a historic memorandum between our countries was signed. And since then, the relations between Russia and Azerbaijan have been on an upward trend in an absolutely, I would say, vertical direction. You spoke about it at the last meeting with the President of Russia and the President of Russia spoke about it at the meeting with heads of news agencies in Sochi, when he was answering a question of the Director General of AZERTAC. In other words, it would seem that there is nothing more to wish for. And yet, if we sharpen the question a little on the situation, are there any topics that have not been resolved in the relations between Russia and Azerbaijan? I would say it a bit softer – where is the greatest potential between Russia and Azerbaijan, and not only in the economy? Since I represent TASS, the news agency should know everything – I know that you have invited the President of Russia to Azerbaijan and you have talked about it. There are rumors in our circles that it may be in the near future. So what will you have to discuss with the President of Russia, if such a meeting does take place?

President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you. Let me say at once that there are simply no issues that need to be resolved in our bilateral relations. And for quite a long time already. In principle, we had settled all issues on the basis of mutual understanding, mutual respect, consideration of mutual interests and taking into account the centuries-old history of relations between our peoples even before the signing of the Declaration on Allied Cooperation, which you mentioned. Recently, you are absolutely right, the frequency of summit meetings has increased, and there is a great need for that. We had meetings both in Moscow in April and on the margins of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization event earlier this month. And there will probably be more meetings before the end of the year. There are many topics. But I will say that although the agenda is very broad – you probably know it better than anyone else, I think the issues of multilateral cooperation are coming to the forefront. Because on the bilateral track, in principle, everything has been adjusted. Political interaction is very successful. The turnover is growing, albeit not like between Russia and Armenia. As you know, the turnover between Russia and Armenia has grown five times in the last two years, from 1.5 billion dollars to 7.3 billion dollars. It is very interesting to us, we are wondering how Armenia was able to increase its exports so much. Well, the question, as they say, is rhetorical. Well, our growth over the last year was somewhere around 17 percent – 4.3 billion or 4.4 billion. There is such a stable growth.

But as for the issues related to multilateral cooperation, there are many topics we are discussing and addressing, of course, with the involvement of partners from other countries as well. First of all, this is the North-South transport corridor, which is becoming more important than ever before for Russian shippers, taking into account the geopolitical situation and the fact that all segments of this project have already been created in Azerbaijan. We are talking about expanding the capacity of this corridor. But there are many other topics as well.

Of course, no summit meeting goes by without the discussion of issues that are particularly close to us. These include humanitarian cooperation, contacts between people, cultural cooperation, education. So this is a huge layer that we are all well aware of. So I am sure that this progressive development of our relations will be continued. This is extremely important for our countries and for the region as a whole.

Moderator Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham: Thank you very much. Mr. President. Up next we have Holger Friedrich from Berliner Zeitung. Please, your question.

Holger Friedrich: My name is Holger Friedrich from Berliner Zeitung, Germany. Many thanks for the invitation. I'm interested to know how you deal with incorrect sometimes incomplete, sometimes maybe manipulating reports about the development in this region, about your country, about your presidency regardless whether that’s from the east, from the north, from the south? Thank you.

President Ilham Aliyev: Unfortunately, it mainly comes from the West. As I already said, it became part of our day-to-day life. At the first stage, we were surprised. At the second stage, we were disappointed. At this stage, we are absolutely indifferent. Because the main decision-maker here is the people of Azerbaijan. Whatever the government is doing is for the benefit of the people and the country.

Of course, we would prefer the coverage of events in our country and in the neighborhood to be objective. If it is not objective due to some misinformation, we don't mind, but if it is a deliberate media attack, a deliberate attempt to discredit what we're doing, of course, the question is, why it's happening. We, as I said, cannot do much, but what is happening now here in Karabakh, I think, is one of the ways how we can improve or change the situation. But I think the more time passes, the more reality in political circles in the West appear to treat Azerbaijan as an equal partner.

You know, when Soviet Union collapsed, there was a kind of perception in the West and also in many post-Soviet republics that the only way how to move forward and survive is to do what the “big guys” are telling you. We've chosen a different way. It was not easy. We had to face attempts of destabilization, attempts of orange revolutions or color revolutions in the beginning of the 2000s. But at the same time, it protected Azerbaijan from transforming into a satellite, a proxy, or a vassal and eventually, that could lead to enormous sufferings for the Azerbaijani people. We've chosen the way of independence, de facto and de jure, independent foreign policy, self-sufficient economies, fruitful cooperation with those partners who want to cooperate with us. Of course, reliance on domestic sources of potential income, in combination with strong ties in the region, allowed us to overcome most of our economic problems. We just decided to do our homework, to concentrate on our country, on our people, and not pay attention to who said what in the European Parliament or in the Council of Europe. We are absolutely indifferent to that.

So, the more people from your part of the world come here and see. I think the better the understanding of our country will be, and the better the relations between Azerbaijan and the countries in the West will become because perceptions, media, and other elements of public space influence the decision-makers. The decision-makers cannot ignore public opinion, and if a country is deliberately demonized as we still are, it becomes difficult for politicians to make decisions in favor of their countries because of that. I think it's this kind of a road with two directions, and we need to come closer. The closer we are, the less misinformation we will face.

Moderator Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham: Next we have Gela Vasadze. He is an independent journalist and a political analyst from Georgia.

Gela Vasadze, independent journalist and political analyst from Georgia: Mr. President, greetings! Thank you very much for organizing such a representative event. It is always very pleasant to be here. To be honest, I have been thinking about it for a very long time. I have one question and I wanted to formulate it as clearly as possible for everybody to understand. I really wanted to ask you when you spoke about the national development concept, the national idea of Azerbaijan. What have you come to today? What is the situation like today? I will therefore formulate it like this: what is your dream Azerbaijan and your dream South Caucasus today?

President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you. I am pleased to see you. I remember you participating in last year’s forum too. Thank you for coming.

You know I spoke about this during my swearing-in speech in February – all of us together, the entire society and all people striving to contribute to the future development, we need to define a new national concept. We all had the same concept regardless of our political preferences, and that was the restoration of territorial integrity and the return of our territories. We achieved that in full last September. I also said that we should not be complacent and should not exploit this topic. Because this is the easiest way. And this topic, in principle, could be exploited for a very long time if we wanted to. But it will lead us nowhere. Of course, we will never forget the occupation, the victims, our great victory, and for our entire lives we and our descendants will be proud of this victory. But we cannot be fixated on this, we cannot exploit this theme and turn it into a symbol all the time. No. We must move forward. And this is why, as President, I addressed our society saying that we should think together. I can't come up with this on my own. And even if something comes to my mind, it will be generated by public debate, public mood or events that are taking place in Azerbaijan and in the world. This is the first thing.

I will also tell you that I outlined this in February, but there is still a process of reflection underway. But I am also convinced that whatever the new national idea or ideas may be, they cannot exist in isolation from the geopolitical context. And the geopolitical context in the world and in our region has changed dramatically, perhaps even more than anyone can imagine. And in this case, Azerbaijan's victory in Karabakh is not the only geopolitical change. I have already mentioned at the very beginning that old alliances are undergoing erosion and new formats of cooperation are emerging. I could go further into this topic, but I think it is clear what we are talking about.

If we are talking about the countries of the South Caucasus, each of these countries has undergone serious political and foreign policy transformations – I would even say close to cardinal ones. Therefore, this is a new situation in the South Caucasus. And we need to comprehend it properly. And based on this comprehension, and proceeding from the vector of foreign policy Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan will follow, it will be possible to formulate an answer to the question you have asked: what kind of South Caucasus do we want to see? Of course, everyone will say that we want to see a peaceful South Caucasus, without wars, without conflicts, without territorial claims, where everybody loves and cooperates with each other. But these are all nice words maybe for a toast, but not for real politics. At this stage, when a new foreign policy agenda is shaping up in Georgia and Armenia, we should clearly understand it, analyze it and then, since it has not changed in Azerbaijan, and I am sure it will not, we should take steps to follow the path of not even integration, but at least some kind of interaction. I have said many times that I deeply regret that countries of the South Caucasus, which were involved in wars, were not able to follow the path of the Baltic States, which were not openly at war with each other. Had this been the case, I am sure that both economic development and political interaction in the South Caucasus could have been an example of cooperation today. Because the peoples inhabiting our countries have lived side by side for centuries, but it did not happen. There is no point in talking about it now. But there is an opportunity now. But in order to take it, again, we need to analyze everything correctly here in Azerbaijan and see all the way to the end how these foreign policy modifications in Georgia and Armenia will conclude, and then we need to take more effective steps. In any case, we believe that long-term peace is possible and, of course, preferable.

Moderator Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham: Francis Kane, please, your question.

Francis Martin Kane, Editor at Large, Arabian Gulf Business Insight: Thank you, Excellency. Mr. President. First of all, let me tell you how grateful I am for the opportunity to be here in Shusha, in Karabakh has been a long-term ambition of mine to visit. So thank you very much for the opportunity. Thank you also for the chance to gauge how Azerbaijan is viewing the world of media ahead of a very big event indeed for you in this coming November. I live and work in Dubai, in the UAE. And I know that you were there last year for COP28, which turned into a very successful event, I believe. Despite a largely hostile and quite negative Western press. I think it was successful because they ignored it. And so I would like to ask you how you see the media coverage of COP29 coming and what will be your approach to what will probably be a hostile and negative Western media?

President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you very much. Actually, almost the next day, maybe or the next week after the decision was made in favor of Baku, we became the subject of a media attack from the West.

It was expected. Many people with whom I discussed Azerbaijan’s presidency, I mean, among my colleagues, heads of state and government, were warning me that it would be a big headache. But we clearly realized that we would be the subject of attack. We could not predict what the topics of accusation would be, but we were sure there would be enough. But we started being accused of being a country rich with oil and gas. That was very strange because, by the way, the UAE COP28 President was also the subject of the same attacks, but unfortunately, it was such a broad, coordinated media process against us. At first, we were not prepared for that. We, of course, tried to explain that it is not our fault that we have oil and gas. You should not judge us by that. You should judge us by how we use the revenues, how we diversify our economy, how we tackle unemployment and poverty. All those figures today are at the level of developed countries, maybe sometimes even below. I mean, 5% poverty is something many countries would wish to have, and that's because of a fair distribution of the wealth generated from fossil fuel sales, transparent and absolutely accountable. But nevertheless, this trend continues. I can tell you that as time passes, there are less and less attacks on us. Our COP Team is working very efficiently and is actually spending most of their time at different meetings abroad. And our COP agenda is very clear, very predictable, and result-oriented. So, I would say that after six months have passed, since even more than that, since the decision was made, we are now less under fire. But we understand that the closer to the event, the fire level will grow.

Coming back to what we just discussed about this unjust coverage and double standards, we all know that one of the COPs was held in Glasgow, in an oil-producing part of the United Kingdom. No one accused the United Kingdom of its oil and gas. So this is just one illustration of what we were talking about. But you know, the advantage of this event many times prevails this, if I may use this word, the disadvantages because this is a main event on a global scale. This is the number one conference on the international arena. For the first time, it is going to be held in the area of the former Soviet Union and the region, and it is a unique chance for us to step into a higher league. Because we are not only organizing, we do a lot on the substance. We launch initiatives. We now actively work with developing countries in order to build bridges between the Global South and the Global North. Our advantage is that we've chaired the Non-Aligned Movement for four years—institution with 120 countries. We've been selected unanimously, and our chairmanship was prolonged for one more year unanimously. So a lot of credit we got there because we did a lot as the chair. I don't want to go into much detail.

At the same time, Azerbaijan is one of the few countries, possibly the only in our part of the world and the former Soviet Union, which has signed or adopted strategic partnership declarations and agreements with 10 members of EU. The members of EU are officially Azerbaijan’s strategic partners. We are members of the Islamic Cooperation Organization. We are members of the OPEC+ format. We work actively with oil-producing countries and have already proposals how oil-producing countries can play a more instrumental role in accumulating finance. We actively communicate with European institutions. I just returned yesterday from London, where I attended the European Political Community summit, which I participated in for the third time. So, this is our advantage. We can build bridges because, frankly speaking, I was not deeply involved in the climatic agenda before. But now I realize there is a big mistrust between developed and developing countries. There are mutual blames and accusations about who did more damage to the planet and who is more responsible, and how to bring those responsible to justice or punishment. We want to put down all of that, because it will lead us nowhere.

We are now launching a program to support Small Island Developing States. Our President of COP29 will spend a week in the UK, meeting with Commonwealth officials. We have announced that we will establish a joint fund with the Commonwealth to support Small Island Developing States. For them, this is an existential threat. So, we are doing a lot on that track. I think that using a very positive legacy of the UAE as COP28 President, we can build on that. But you know, the funny thing is that before the UAE, it was Egypt, another fossil fuel-producing country, hosted COP, and after us, it will be Brazil. So the same. But this demonstrates that these countries, which are absolutely on the safe side with respect to energy security, want to demonstrate their responsibility. They want to make contribution to invest in green technologies, green transition. As Madam Rebecca said, one of the topics will be green solidarity. Yes, the year 2024 has been officially announced as the Green World Solidarity Year in Azerbaijan. I hope we will have a good event and achieve good results. And, of course, we invite all our friends to be with us in November.

Moderator Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham: We will definitely be there. Next, Carlyle Corbin, international expert on governance, representative of French Polynesia to UN.

Carlyle Corbin: Mr. President. One of the narratives that considered false is that of contemporary colonialism having been ended. Obviously it's not. You've been very active in probably most of all leaders of the world. It has been your consistent position on this question. And also certainly during your tenure as the chair of the Non-Aligned Movement the Baku initiative group here has been very, very involved, in this world in terms of putting together a platform for the territories that are still colonies to proceed in the colonization process. We just completed a major study on the French colonial territories, including all of the territories that will be examined and presented on Monday. I would like to know certainly, you mentioned the Small Island Developing States as well. Being from the Caribbean, we are very pleased and very fortunate to have your support in the context of climate change, as you mentioned, is certainly an existential threat. We would like to know your view on continued and future initiatives with respect to the decolonization process, with the remaining colonies in the world.

President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you very much. You're absolutely right that we started actively addressing this issue after we were elected as chair of the Non-aligned Movement. This was part of our responsibility, because many countries of the Non-aligned Movement suffered from colonialism in the past and suffered a lot and sacrificed millions of lives during the time of colonialism, and some countries still suffer from that. Like Comoro Islands and Mayotte are still under colonial rule, and that was our obligation. We wanted to help these countries to get rid of this disgusting feature of the past.

Unfortunately, in the French government, they again using media which is under their control, or trying to accuse us that we are meddling into their internal affairs, but this is not true. We do it in response to their anti-Azerbaijani acts in the UN Security Council, the European Union, and other institutions where they have actually launched a cold war against us. No, we do it because we're absolutely sure that what France is doing is unacceptable, is disgusting, and must be stopped. They have no right to control the rights of people living more than 10,000 kilometers from their territory, and whom they humiliate, whom they assimilate, and whom they kill. Seven people were killed during the last events in New Caledonia. The responsibility lies with the Government of France and its president.

We will continue to support all peoples who suffer from colonialism as much as we can. With all our resources, and of course, through the Baku Initiative Group. As you know, this is an NGO. But NGO created in Azerbaijan through joint efforts, and they are doing a great job, because the voices of those suffering from colonialism have not been heard. Because not many countries can afford to accuse a country like France or what they are doing. Many countries prefer just to close their eyes or to turn their face and not to be involved, not to have a headache, not to be demonized in Le Figaro or Le Monde, which have become an instrument in the hands of French president’s regime. I tell it with complete confidence. We know the messages, which go to these media outlets from the Élysée Palace, but we don't care. We will support you as much as we can with all our resources until you are free. You and millions like you are free to live on your land, to plan your future, and to protect your heritage, your dignity, and your language, which they want to deprive you of. We will stand by you.

Moderator Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham: Thank you very much, Your Excellency. Next we have a question from Maxim Shevchenko.

Maksim Shevchenko: Mr. President, thank you for the invitation to beautiful Shusha. I have seen it in ruins, I have seen it in grief when it was deprived of its homeland. I participated, in the early 2000s, in an attempt at humanitarian negotiations between Azerbaijan and Armenia, etc. So when I see such revival of the liberated territories now, I am happy for Azerbaijan, and I want to thank you and through you all the people of Azerbaijan for what you have done.

President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you.

Maksim Shevchenko: I will continue this thought. This is a very important topic – false narratives. In Russian it sounds even harsher. Narratives of lies. What kind of a lie is this? It is a lie that allows the West, as you said today, to continue to dominate peoples of the world, to continue to impose its political and historical narratives on the peoples of the world, to dictate its will to different territories. These narratives are formed there for some reason. Who lived in a certain place, which ancient historians allowed them to live there, who has the right to dictate that because of something someone wrote a thousand years ago, to carry out ethnic cleansing or form their states today. So when the Azerbaijani people dealt a blow to this lie under your leadership, it was in fact the beginning of the destruction of the whole system, a system of deception which was formed throughout the 20th century on the ruins of the Ottoman Empire, on attempts to destroy the Russian Empire, on attempts to create nations subordinated to Western masters.

I have a question regarding the fate of the South Caucasus. A very large number of my Azerbaijani friends come from Western Azerbaijan, where the ashes of their ancestors lie in the ground for dozens, perhaps hundreds of generations, and they are deprived of the opportunity to visit their historical homeland, where Azerbaijanis and indeed people of different religions and belonging to different nations lived for thousands of years. There probably have been wars and conflicts there, but these territories have never known ethnic cleansing. Almost 300,000 Azerbaijanis were expelled from the territory of Western Azerbaijan and Armenia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. They say that this process actually started back in the 1980s. I have heard different things about that. But I don't want to bring any additional intonations here, as you said, as a continuation of the past. The future belongs to humanitarian cooperation. I have a question to you: is it possible, can we live up to such a situation when Azerbaijanis can visit their homeland at least as guests? Maybe even someone will want to live there. I have friends, and they are elderly people who still remember living on the shores of Lake Goycha, or Sevan in Armenian. Many of them speak Armenian, by the way, but today they are deprived of this opportunity. I know Armenians who probably want to come to Azerbaijan in the same way, which for many of them has been their homeland for many generations. So how do you see this process of humanitarian exchange, a restoration of justice, a restoration of the true integrity of the Caucasus with its Caucasian traditions, and the absence of ethnic cleansing. This applies to Georgia for me as well. Here my position is unchanged. Every Georgian must return to the lands from where they were expelled. I say this boldly as a Russian citizen. Will this process move off the ground? Will this process move forward? Will Azerbaijanis see their homeland on the territory of Western Azerbaijan?

President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you, thank you for your question. Before saying what I think about this issue, I would like to say that Azerbaijanis were deported from the territory of today's Armenia back in the early 20th century, in 1918 and then, after the war, World War II, I mean, under a completely far-fetched pretext of repatriation of Armenians living in Western countries to Armenia and freeing up space for them. Then in the 1940s and 50s, several decrees were adopted by the Soviet government, the leadership of the country, as hundreds of thousands were deported then, to the Kura-Araz lowland, a place completely unfit for life and completely different in terms of the natural and climatic conditions from Zangezur, Goycha and other territories of Western Azerbaijan where they used to live before. That is, many of them simply could not stand it and died. But also, of course, the ethnic cleansing of the late 1980s, which is when everything started. Because many people, again, going back to the comments you made at the beginning of your question about the narratives of lies, it was all hushed up in the media of the West, including Russia, the Russia of the 1990s. It was silenced. There was 100-percent lop-sided approach to maintaining the false narrative of Armenia, when the barbaric deportation of Azerbaijanis from the territory of Armenia, Gafan district and others was completely hushed up. And that's basically where it all started. It was the spark that later turned into a huge fire. So our people experienced all the hardships of deportation.

As for your question specifically, I am deeply convinced that this day will surely come. Here, of course, we are counting on the political will of the Armenian leadership, its commitment to the principles of democracy and the rule of law that it has been declaring. You know, even before the anti-terror operation was carried out last September, we had repeatedly invited representatives of the Armenian population of Karabakh to meetings in order to talk to them. I actually appointed a special representative of the President from among members of the parliament, who was specifically instructed to establish contacts and determine the further residence and vital activities of the Armenian population of Karabakh. The first meeting with representatives of the Armenians of Karabakh took place on the territory we did not control at the time, in Khojaly, at the base of the Russian peacekeeping contingent. But at that time we also proposed that the next meeting should be held on the territory under our control. But the then separatist regime refused to do so. And over the course of several months, we invited them to meetings twice, but they refused on both occasions. After that, many international actors who tried to participate in the process approached us with the question: how will their livelihood be organized? And then we had to just put the reintegration project just on the internet. And it is available. I believe that many people interested in this problem are already familiar with it. Everything was clearly laid out there. Under what conditions they can stay there, on the territory of Azerbaijan – on the condition of the adoption of citizenship. The way to achieve this and the conditions for obtaining work and residence permits were also laid out. So there are no other forms of how a citizen of another country can live permanently in a different country. But that was also refused. So we were as constructive as possible in terms of ensuring the security and livelihoods of those people of Armenian nationality who lived in Karabakh, which was not under our control at the time. When we secured control over it and put an end to separatism on September 20, we held several meetings with representatives of the Armenian population again, but there was no result again. This is concerning our approach. And naturally we expect exactly the same approach from the Armenian government. We expect them to make a clear statement on how the Azerbaijanis expelled from the present-day territory of Armenia, from Western Azerbaijan, or the descendants of those who were expelled can return to their historical lands, visit them or live on these lands. Moreover, according to our reliable information, 90 percent of villages inhabited by Azerbaijanis have no life in them now, i.e. they are empty. They have been reduced to stones, just like Fuzuli was reduced to stones for 30 years, Aghdam, and all other Azerbaijani towns and villages. Some villages there are inhabited by Armenian population. This is why I deeply believe that this day will definitely come. And when I spoke about it many times, of course, the international world controlled by the Armenian diaspora began to accuse me of almost cherishing thoughts of an invasion. I was saying: we will not go there in tanks, we will go there in cars. I still say that now. I think that this is one of the messages that the sponsors of today's Armenian regime, especially in Paris and other Western capitals, should convey to them very clearly. They are now imagining themselves to be the most advanced Europeans. Let them demonstrate what is characteristic of the European Union – protection of ethnic minorities, their language, their history, their culture. Let them demonstrate this in practice, not in words. I think that Azerbaijan's wish or Azerbaijan's actions will not be enough here. I believe that it would be good if international media organizations and international non-governmental organizations get involved in this issue. Because the number of Azerbaijanis expelled from Western Azerbaijan and their descendants in Azerbaijan today accounts for millions. This, if we take the regional context of Azerbaijan, is the largest region in terms of population.

Moderator Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham: Thank you. I would like the question to be asked by the representative of Haber Global.

Saynur Tezel, TV anchor of Turkish Haber Global TV channel: Mr. President, Your Excellency, thank you for having us here. I am very honored and very impressed and very happy to be here in Karabakh in Shusha, especially after 30 years of occupation, demolition. It’s very great to witness the major change, the fantastic change of the region.

I'm journalist from Haber Global based in Istanbul. I'd like to ask the current situation of the peace agreement On November 9, 2020, the victory in Karabakh was achieved. As you mentioned, in your opening remarks on September 19, 2023, the anti-terror operation in Khankendi ended the Armenian occupation in Karabakh, and ensured the Azerbaijan’s territorial integrity. However, the peace agreement hasn’t been signed yet. You have clearly stated that let me quote “constitutional change indispensable condition for the peace agreement with Azerbaijan. So, I would like to ask about the recent peace-oriented statements of Armenian Prime Minister Pashinyan. He has given speeches, the peaceful speeches in Armenian parliament, and to the public as well as sending messages opposing to the revanchist aims, revanchist sentiments. When President Erdogan was asked about this he responded let me quote: now is the time to move away from the fabricated historical narratives, and progress on the realistic basis. Pashinyan has now understood this. Many provocative actors aside from the Diaspora, revanchists, are trying to influence Armenia in the process. I hope Armenia chooses the right path. Because opportunities do not remain open forever. It is important to seize the moment. End of quote. So my question is what are the conditions for this opportunity to remain open? Do you think the peace agreement will be signed soon? Thank you.

President Ilham Aliyev: If you allow me, I will start from the very beginning. After the Second Karabakh War ended, there was a certain vacuum. At that time, the former Minsk Group was still operational and functional. When their representatives, these three co-chairs, visited Azerbaijan afterward, I realized that they themselves did not know what should be done next. Because Azerbaijan actually did everything itself, bringing an end to the conflict. Most of the principles that had been negotiated for more than twenty years were achieved. It was us, the country and I personally, who proposed starting work on a peace agreement. Because their question was: what should we do next? My idea was that after the Karabakh deal is done, what we need to do? The two countries should normalize their relations. This was publicly announced by Azerbaijan, but there was no response from Armenia. Then after a while, we disclosed the principles on which the peace agreement should be based. These five principles, fundamental principles of international law, I'm sure everybody involved in this process knows what I'm talking about. Still, it took a lot of time for Armenia to agree. Negotiations started on our initiative. They continued for a certain period of time without any tangible progress for one particular reason. Because Armenia wanted to incorporate the issue of so-called Nagorno-Karabakh into the peace agreement, which we opposed, based on the fact that this is our internal issue. Internal issues should not be subject to agreement between two states. Having this issue unresolved, it was absolutely useless to concentrate on other important topics. After Azerbaijan restored its sovereignty last September, we waited for three more months before Armenia agreed to restart negotiations. From a practical point of view, the real negotiations only started last December. Only six months have passed, and the negotiations have been held only at the level of foreign ministers. There have been several meetings of foreign ministers of both countries in different locations.

With respect to the text of the peace agreement, as I was informed by our foreign minister, about from 80 to 90 percent of the text is agreed upon. Armenia had to withdraw its reservations and all these terminology related to the so-called Nagorno-Karabakh, which opened the door for normalization. But there are two important issues which must be addressed. At least, at the moment, two. One, Armenia should respond positively to our proposal for a joint application by Armenia and Azerbaijan to the OSCE to dissolve the Minsk Group. Because the Minsk Group has been dysfunctional for many months, and maybe already a couple of years. There is no chance for the Minsk Group to become functional again. First because the co-chairs now actually de facto at war with each other, I mean two against one. Secondly, France has completely lost its chance of being a mediator, or even being present in the Southern Caucasus, because they cannot operate in the region without our agreement. If they want to do it without our agreement, they will fail again. Once again, it would be another painful loss for them. Under this circumstances, what is the sense of keeping the Minsk Group de jure alive? In OSCE, as you know, there is a consensus mechanism. If Armenia wants to keep de jure Minsk Group it will remain, but if it wants to keep it that means that their territorial claims to Azerbaijan are still here. This is a very serious factor. It's a kind of litmus test. If they mean what they say. Why I say that is because often they say something that is absolutely contradictory to what they do. If they really now say that “Karabakh is Azerbaijan” on the very high level, though in 2019, several kilometers from here in Khankendi, the same person was very emotionally saying “Karabakh is Armenia”. So, now he says that “Karabakh is Azerbaijan”. Good. I mean, transformation and reforms are always appreciated, but now, this must be backed by practical steps. First, a joint application to the OSCE to dissolve the Minsk Group—Armenia disagrees. Second, a change in the Armenian constitution. And once again, I'd like to say that it's not something which we are doing in order to interfere in their affairs—no. The Armenian Constitution has references to the Declaration of Independence, which clearly poses a territorial threat to Azerbaijan, because it deals with the unification of so-called Nagorno-Karabakh with Armenia. So, until this paragraph is there, a peace agreement is not possible. And again, I want everybody to understand me correctly. It's absolutely not part of our interference. But with this paragraph in their constitution, it is not possible because a constitution is higher than any other document, including an international treaty. So, we don't want to find ourselves in a situation where one day they will change their mind and again we will have to do what we've done in September.

In the meantime, the process of agreeing on the text is continuing. I don't know when the next meeting of foreign ministers will be. I am now less optimistic because, as you probably know, Prime Minister Pashinyan refused to meet with me in the U.K. The U.K. government proposed organizing a meeting between us on the sidelines of an event in Oxfordshire. But the Armenian side refused. We were surprised. Because just four months ago, Chancellor Scholz organized this meeting in Munich where he participated for five to six minutes. And then he left. That was a kind of modality of the meeting. He would meet with both leaders, and then say some introductory remarks, and then leave. And that was what happened. So, the UK government proposed the same with participation of the Prime Minister of the UK. But Prime Minister Pashinyan refused. If he doesn’t want to talk to me, then what kind of peace are we talking about? If he doesn’t want to talk to the UK Prime Minister, then why did he go to London to Oxfordshire? So, there are a lot of things, which are in deep contradiction, but we will see. As I said, I just returned yesterday. We will see. One track is the text. Another track is what I said about the legal format.

Moderator Rebecca McLaughlin-Eastham: Thank you Mr. President. We move now to Prof. Paolo Liebl Von Schirach, President, Global Policy Institute (GPI); Professor, Political Science and International Relations, Bay Atlantic University, BAU, Washington D.C.

Paolo Liebl Von Schirach: Thank you very much. Yes, we are based in Washington DC. Mr. President, I was honored to be here last year. Thank you so much for inviting me again, thanks to the organizers. Quick footnote, if I may, on this topic of the Azerbaijani citizens of Western Azerbaijan. We held a meeting in Washington DC a few days ago. And we had Mrs. Zulfikar, who is the spokesperson for Western Azerbaijan Community to discuss this very issue that you elaborated upon, because we're very well aware of how biased coverage of these matters are. People know nothing about 300,000 plus, Azerbaijani ethnic Azerbaijani Armenians, who were as you described in much detail evicted forcibly from their country and with no compensation, no justification and no nothing. So, we had the opportunity to provide a little bit of education and give a spokesperson and you know, a chance to educate us about what happened.

And the footnote. My question is back on energy, and COP29.There has been, as you know very well in the how the world is evolving. Let's say the aspiration to be to move the world, particularly the West, and mostly, I would say in the European Union, to move away from carbon and all go renewable, we all green, etc. While the European Union recently said well, maybe not now, maybe later. It's a good idea, but we can't quite do it which is to say very bluntly, oil and gas are here to stay. Let me just illustrate I come from the United States, in which the administration has committed itself to spend hundreds of billions of dollars in green energy. Guess what, last year 2023, the United States had its maximum production of oil and gas in history. Okay, this under the Biden administration, which has committed 100% to a green agenda, and where oil and gas is work of the devil. So my point is this. And here's my question. You are hosting COP29 very soon. And you are a country that produces oil and gas but as you said last year, I remember your words, you said but we're also moving ahead very nicely on renewable energy. So you are in a position to do both. And you will for a chance control the narrative because you are the host country. So what is your message to a world which is a yes, we want to be green? We want to go renewable, but we can't do it today. Because its technology is not there. The costs are too high. And there are many other technical issues. And your country is in a position of being, as you said, a bridge between the global north and the global south and you produce oil and gas and thank God for that you stabilize Europe, European energy. We know that pipelines that go all the way from here to Italy and beyond. So what is your message to the world in this sense of having to live in this hybrid environment of both continuing to rely for quite some time on carbon energy, but at the same time, exploring, moving ahead and investing and being entrepreneurial in renewables in renewable energy? Thank you very much.

President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you. If my message can be articulated in a short sentence, it would be: “Put down hypocrisy.” That's the short message. But in order to disclose a little bit, I just want to say that since we last met, Azerbaijan has made substantial progress in renewables. We inaugurated the first solar power station of 230 megawatts. Now, the construction of a wind power station of 240 megawatts is underway. Soon, we will enjoy the groundbreaking ceremony for the third solar power station of 240 megawatts. The first was done by Masdar, the second, which is now under construction, is ACWA Power, and the third, which we expect to start with BP - the leading energy companies of the world. Above that, last month in Baku, we had the groundbreaking ceremony for three solar and wind power stations with a total capacity of one gigawatt. So, we are doing a lot of that. We have great potential—both technical and economic. The technical potential of offshore wind power in Azerbaijan is 157 gigawatts based on IFC, which is part of the World Bank institution. The economic potential of onshore solar and wind is 27 gigawatts, which clearly indicates how much we can generate. It’s enormous.

Plus we are now in the final stage of feasibility studies on a green energy cable from Caspian offshore wind farms to Romania under the Black Sea. The potential of that cable will be four gigawatts. We signed an agreement with ACWA Power company to build storage because one of the problems with renewables is the lack of storages. Now, with new technologies, you can have storage and accumulate energy. The first storage with this kind of battery will be for 200 gigawatts. We do all that by attracting foreign investments and investing our own money. Additionally, it will save us a lot of natural gas, which Europe needs so badly now. When I said that the message is to put down hypocrisy, it’s because, on one hand, they ask us to increase the production of gas and deliver it to Europe because they are now in shortage. On the other hand, they do not finance it. That was one of the topics of my discussions with European colleagues. The European Investment Bank (EIB) has totally stopped financing fossil fuel projects. The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) has almost totally stopped financing these projects. The Southern Gas Corridor, which is an integrated 3,500-kilometer pipeline system, is fully packed. It works at 100% capacity. There is a lot of demand from European countries for additional gas. We just signed, just a couple of days ago, an agreement with a company from Slovenia, which will probably be the 9th partner of Azerbaijan, I mean consumer. But European financial institutions—they stopped financing. They want us to expand the Southern Gas Corridor from 16 to 32 billion cubic meters – TANAP and Trans Adriatic pipeline from 10 to 20 – to invest billions of dollars. By the way, I can tell you that we have not recovered the costs of the Southern Gas Corridor so far. And we are still recovering. All that we earn from gas sales goes to finance, I mean, to pay the debts. They want us to put in additional billions, while at the same time, they in the EU say that in 10 years or maybe less they will no longer need gas. So, we must be crazy to invest billions for something, which they will not need, and then they look into our eyes and say, “Where is our gas?” So, my message is, stop this game, you know, without fossil fuels, it's not possible to live. This is first.

Second, I know how much European companies invest in renewables, and I applaud them for that. They do a great job, but international analysis demonstrates that no matter how much they invest, they will still face shortages. They will still need additional energy, which is why we are working on the cable I just said. Not only that, but just a couple of months ago, we signed an MOU with Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan to evaluate the possibility of an undersea cable in the Caspian because these two countries also have great renewable potential and some projects are being implemented. So, if everything goes according to our plan, we could have a green energy cable from Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Caspian, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Türkiye, and then Romania. This would be a project even bigger than the Southern Gas Corridor, but we need cooperation. And we need coordination. Every February, already, I think for the 10th or 9th time, we host the Advisory Council of the Southern Gas Corridor in Baku with participation from dozens of countries, co-chaired by the European Commission and Azerbaijan, and one of the subjects is exactly green energy. We are in favor of synergy because

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